YFG Dublin Regional Council seminar on the Lisbon Treaty
19th Feb 2008 in Buswell’s hotel Dublin

Maynooth YFG were represented as the Dublin regional Council hosted a debate on the Lisbon Treaty. Deputy Finian McGrath and David Quinn of the Iona institute were on the no camp while Fine Gael TD Lucinda Creighton and former Fine Gael leader Alan Dukes advocated a yes vote. Chairperson for the evening was RTE news anchor Brian Dobson. Each speaker had ten minutes to speak before the issue was opened up to the floor.

Lucinda began by discussing the benefits for Ireland of membership of the European Union. Progressive legislation with regard to women’s rights, worker’s rights and human rights had come directly through membership of the union. Membership had helped Ireland deal with the political challenges of the past thirty five years and the same would be true of the political challenges of the future. Lucinda made the point that we are stronger as a country through membership of this body than we would be in isolation. Through Europe Ireland can influence policy on a much greater scale. Anticipating the arguments that would come from the no side, Lucinda said that there is no democratic deficit in Europe and that this reform treaty enhances democracy. The power of the directly elected European parliament is enhanced at the expense of the Commission which is not directly elected. The treaty also ensures that Ireland has more MEPs per capita than any other member state according to Lucinda. She also dismissed the no side’s scaremongering saying we had heard it all before. “Every time there is a referendum the no side say it will lead to militarization, tax harmonisation when it never does”. “This treaty even explicitly states that these things will not happen” concluded deputy Creighton.

David Quinn confirmed that he was only “leaning towards the no side” and that he was not decidedly against ratification. The two issues he raised were national sovereignty and competence creep within the Union. Knowing the audience was made up predominately of Young Fine Gaelers he urged the party to adopt a more sceptical position on Europe and to be more critical of it. Quinn argued that since Irish entrance to the EEC in 1973 we were on a train journey and didn’t know where the final destination was.

Alan Dukes was the next speaker and he countered David Quinn’s argument that we were on a train journey without knowing where the final stop was. Dukes said that no political entity ever knows what the final stop would be, that in 1922 when our state was founded we didn’t know where we would end that particular journey and still don’t. The Lisbon Treaty is about reforming the institutions so that it can deal with a bigger Union than originally anticipated. Again countering the arguments of the no camp, Dukes said that the Union is not just about Economics. It is primarily about peace and democracy in the aftermath of two devastating world wars. Alan Dukes pointed out that Greece was part of the original EEC precisely because it was beginning on the road to democracy. Portugal and Spain were invited to join around the time they cast of dictatorial leaders. Dukes argued that if the European project was purely about economics these nation states would not have been brought on board. They have since moved on to peace, democracy and prosperity through membership. In an interesting argument Dukes claimed the EU was more democratic than most member states themselves were. If there is a democratic deficit it exists in national parliaments and not in the European parliament where each MEP has more influence on parliamentary business than the average MP or TD in Ireland.

Finian McGrath admitted that he believes the referendum will pass the treaty but nevertheless aired his many concerns about the direction the EU was going in. Deputy McGrath took issue with aspects of the treaty with regard to national sovereignty and our right to make our own military decisions before Alan Dukes stepped in to say our right to make our own decisions is not altered by the treaty. Deputy McGrath said he respected the views of others but wanted people to be honest with the people.

Lively discussion ensued with deputy McGrath taking some flak from the Fine Gael contingent over his support for the FF/Grn/ PD coalition but opposition to Europe. Following the debate the group went for drinks bringing an end to an enjoyable evening.

7 reasons to vote Yes

This Treaty will:

• Strenghten the EU's capacity to bring greater economic prosperity, which we have shared and will continue to share.
• Equip the EU to better deal with global warming, energy security and cross border crime, because we cannot do this on our own.
• Limit the size of the European Parliament and the European Commission so that we have less bureaucracy and more efficiency.
• Create a new EU Foreign Affairs Representative who will give us a stronger voice on the World stage, in the UN and dealing with developing countries needs. As China and other regions organise it is important we are not left behind.
• Make the Charter on Fundamental Rights legally binding on EU Institutions and Member States when implementing EU Law, thereby safeguarding the rights of Irish citizens.
• By extending the powers of our MEPs and strengthening the role of Dáil & Seanad Éireann, make Europe more accountable.
• Ensure that the EU exercises those responsibilities - but only those responsibilities - that can be carried out more effectively by commonly agreed policies than by Member States acting separately - the "subsidiarity principle"

Download the full treaty text here (1.56 MB PDF document)